One of the concepts that we Thai people value is called “greng jai” or “kreng jai”. This concept can be easily explained by an example in my office.
My boss (who is a farang and makes me work overtime for no extra salary and now makes me work on Saturdays) tries very hard to make our office more like a western office in terms of how the staff and their superiors interact with each other. He really wants us to talk to him or our superior if we have a problem or have an idea/suggestion about how to improve the way we work. He has been getting quite annoyed because of what he sees as a lack of interest from the Thai staff in making these kinds of comments and suggestions. But the truth is we are interested but it’s really against out nature to speak up and make these kind of comments. This is not because we feel like our ideas are not good or anything silly like that. This is because we feel grateful to our superiors and our boss for (a) giving us the job and (b) the help and teaching and guidance etc that they give to us as our superiors. In turn, with the staff who work below me, I also teach and guide and help. This is how everyone can improve. If I start to criticise, even in a nice way, the system or process that my superior put in place, how can this possibly not be impolite? Criticism is never nice.
But my boss gets frustrated about this and sometimes rants about how farang workers are better than Thai workers. Actually this is not true, because if farang workers always criticise, even in a nice way, then how can they be concentrating on doing their best job? Their superiors are there usually because of a system of meritocracy (although I sometimes wonder with my Boss) and only when I know everything my boss knows can I legitimately make a suggestion for improvement on his way of working. Thai workers get blamed of playing a political game by not contructively criticising things (“She just wants to protect her job and be everyone’s friend) but actually a Farang worker who makes all sorts of suggestions is doing the political game herself! She is hoping to be noticed or have a great idea which unfairly promotes her before her skills actually match the position she is interested in.
I’m just fed up of hearing that farang work ethics are better, more developed, more advanced, more modern etc than Thai work ethics. Yes they’re different but clearly the Thai harmony in an all Thai office is more condusive to work and therefore, much better. Why do farang countries make more money? That’s a historical question and nothing to do with work ethic!
This way of thinking goes right through everything beyond the workplace. Farangs think they are better and don’t hesitate to tell a Thai person how a particular thing in our country is better someplace else. But did the farangs ever consider that they might not be helping, trying to force their farang ways onto Thai people? Farangs think they are so good at everything, but compared to what? Maybe if Thai people could work in a Thai way then you could actually create some synergy rather than the constant conflict (at least there’s constant conflict in my office) and everyone could make more money. My boss seems to think he can personally alter centuries of national character traits. The arrogance is amazing. My boss doesnt even make much money, I’ve seen his car and house.
June 6th, 2008 at 2:52 am
William (or are you still in character as Fon?),
This sort of description of krengjai is straight out of a beginner’s manual on how to do business in Thailand. It is simplistic and thus wildly inaccurate.
I have never met a Thai person who did not feel that krengjai was a problem that held Thailand and Thai society back. Some amount of krengjai was good, but everyone I have met (and who would say something on the subject) has said that the Farang method of straight talk was clearly better. They all said that their deferential behavior was based on their upbringing, which is hard to shed.
Most Thais would agree that the farang method is too rough for them, and something in between would be better for both. For example, my wife admires that farangs can have a loud argument at work, and it doesn’t affect their friendship outside work. She may be disturbed by the yelling, but deeply admires the speed of their reconciliation. Thais, she complains, carry grudges for decades.
I have also been teaching long enough so that I can get nearly every student in the class talking (and in most cases, talking openly) by the end of the class. As soon as they know that farang also have krengjai, and that the farang method of krengjai is straight talking with care, they embrace it.
“Farang chop maak phut trong.
Farang chop maak kwa wela khon Thai phut trong duay.”
June 6th, 2008 at 2:55 am
clifford as you have decided I cannot exist why do you persist in visiting my web site? if you dont give me the basic respect of acknowledging my existence I am going to prevent you from commenting on my web site any more.
June 6th, 2008 at 5:09 am
These comments about Thai workers and foreigners are one of the other:
1) Completely false as you don’t understand what is Education and probably never been working abroad with a lot of western workers. Don’t tell me that in Thailand people haev more organization, marketing skills, and education that western countries!!!!!
2) Just there to put some fire and you are a foreigner writing on this stupid blog.
I love Thailand but you are an insult to all the foreigners working here, living peacefully, enjoying Thailand.
September 30th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
1:working longer for no extra!! to right you should your lucky to have a job in the first place 2: western work ethics are better so live with it and stop crying like a baby
October 26th, 2008 at 3:26 am
I have read that many people would prefer to employ a ling rather than a Thai as they have similar capabilities and need less feeding.
December 24th, 2008 at 9:01 am
All your boss is asking you to do is “THINK” for yourselves and use “LOGIC”. Really, not that difficult…;)
March 14th, 2009 at 2:15 am
I have reported this racist website to your host at
OxfordHost.co.uk
also I have asked
your registant for your real details due to racist content
WebsiteSpot.com
I am going to find your employer and show him this site. I have also made a copy of the site to make sure he/she can see it.
April 15th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Interesting topic! I am going to Thailand from England soon and this gave a good insight.
I don’t think one is better than the other but to be honest the Thai way sounds more peaceful which appeals to me.
But I guess different approaches are better suited to different work enviroments.
May 16th, 2009 at 9:13 am
I lost my fucking company, and more then 1 million USD, you know why, becauce you peoples fucking stupied.
No one like to work, no fucking brain, just eat and sleep, try to learn from farangs I believe Thailand will be better country, just try.
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:25 am
my my, some vitriolic comments up there. i don’t know what’s thats all about. from the several entries i’ve read, you don’t differentiate farangs, which is the same mistake most farangs make by calling everybody with different eyes “asians”
americans, english, austrailians and europeans all have somewhat different characters, work habits, and ways of getting along with other people.
i can only speak for americans, as i am one. i can tell you that complaining to the boss is a very common way of communication with higher ups. then the bosses job is to make the complaint go away, either by ignoring it, or doing something to address the problem. when the workers complain about something and suggest solutions, the boss feels like he’s the “power person” who can implement the suggested solution, change it to his way, or ignore it.
i’m married to a thai women and i’m constantly trying to figure out what’s going on, and i’m often realizing that my way of doing things is NOT the thai way of doing things. i think my way is better sometimes, sometimes the thai way is better. what ever gets the job done, keeps the family going, makes people work it out.
August 15th, 2009 at 2:20 am
Fon, I have a company in Thailand. I dont think I know everything, as nobody does, same as your boss. He is just asking for your thoughts, maybe you see something is better. Example your boss is buying something from one company because that is the only company he knows to buy from, but you know another company to buy from and save money, do you not say something? This would be wrong not to say something and help the company save money. As for working on Saturday and not getting paid thats wrong. You can report this to the Thai ministry of labor. You are to be paid a minimum of I Believe you are in Bangkok and minimum in Bangkok is 203 baht per day. I dont think any of my staff have problems like you seem to have. I dont yell or get upset with them, I like an office that is at peace, but I do ask them to look at the company as if they are the owners and do what is best to help the company to grow, in return I offer them a good salary and after 3 years they get 5% of profits shared equally among all the employees, the more profitable the company they more the yearly bonus they get. Maybe speak to your boss and recommended this to him.
February 6th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
as a farang that has been working with thais, i just stopped because it was impossible to get any work done properly.
1 – working in a collaborative way is impossible in thailand: thais understand only hierarchy, they obey your orders or bully the people under them.
2 – i couldn’t discuss any idea with my thais colleagues, they are totally immune to thinking
3 – only a thai think it is unfair being promoted for your intelligence and skills, as thais will just lick their bosses ass to get favors.
4 – i never found in years any thai contractor doing a correct job, and i mean 100% thai companies, no farang involved, so what’s this bullshit about ‘let thais do it their way and we will will be successfull’
your blog is just an other demonstration of thai racism, and utter stupidity. if you don’t like farangs, why do you work with farangs then? go to a thai company and lick your bosse’s ass all day and endure all humiliations due to your social position.
February 15th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
One of the concepts that we Western people value is called “mutual respect”. This concept can be easily explained by an example in my office in Bangkok.
My boss (who is more British than me despite being Norwegian, and for whom I don’t mind working overtime for no extra salary and if duty calls, sometime even on Saturdays and Sundays) doesn’t want to try to make our office more like a Thai office in terms of how the staff and their superiors interact with each other. We speak our minds freely to him if we have a problem or have an idea/suggestion about how to improve the way we work. He is relaxed because of what he sees as as interest from his staff in making these kinds of comments and suggestions, and problems get solved quickly. And the truth is we are interested, and it’s really in our nature to speak up and make these kind of comments, and not just sneak off and set up nasty websites out of sheer hatred. This is not because we feel like our ideas are really good or anything silly like that. This is because we respect our boss as a human rather than grudgingly feign deference, because (a) it’s much easier to work together if you do actually get along and (b) he respects us in the same way, so everyone can be themselves. In turn, with the staff who work with me, we talk freely. This is how problems can get solved. If I start to criticise, even in a nasty way, problems with the system or process that we have put in place, people listen and nobody really takes it as impolite, things get fixed, and we make more money. Criticism is often very useful.
My boss doesn’t get frustrated and doesn’t rant about how some workers are better than other workers. Actually he even put up with a really lazy Thai guy for about a year, who came in late every day and left early, and who repeatedly had to be politely told to take a shower in the morning, because he smelt bad (I didn’t hold it against him – he just didn’t know how to dry his clothes properly). That Thai guy never gave his opinion, in fact he rarely said anything, except ‘Yes I understand’, out of deference, when he usually didn’t, and then wasted lots of time and money doing the wrong things, until eventually my boss was forced to let him go. If any worker never criticises, even in a nice way, then how can they be concentrating on improving their workflow? Perhaps they think of things too much in terms of ‘superiors’ and ‘people working under them’ and that their boss is there only because of a system of nepotism and as soon as they think they know better than their boss, they run off to their cubicle to post vicious comments on websites about how they are being paid to do things like speak freely, because it chafes with their nationalistic pride to be told what to do by a foreigner. All on company time. Thai workers get blamed for playing political games by forming little cliques and negatively criticising their colleagues behind their backs. (“She’s does her job better than us so let’s not even talk to her until she breaks down and quits.”) but actually a worker who makes all sorts of suggestions is probably just trying to get the job done! She is probably smarter or has better ideas which will likely get her promoted before her spiteful colleagues who are still tapping away in their cubicles on vindictive little websites.
I’m just fed up of hearing how ‘Greng Jai’ is better, more harmonious, more conducive, more non-discordant etc than just working as a team to get the job done. Yes it has value but clearly the harmony in an office where people can speak freely is more conducive to problem solving and therefore, more of an advantage. Why do other countries make more money than Thailand? That’s everything to do with work ethic! They solve problems together by talking to each other openly rather than constantly side-stepping or self-censoring because of pecking order. My Thai girlfriend hates it, so now she works as a purchasing manager in a Swedish company in Bangkok and is much happier, except for the outrageous import bribes she has to regularly deal with because of the uber-corrupt Thai customs department.
This way of thinking goes right through everything beyond the workplace. Many international workers see problems and don’t hesitate to suggest helpful ways to solve them based on experience in other countries. But did they ever consider that Thai people might not be listening, and instead stereotyping such help as a cultural attack led by the smelly ‘Farang’ invaders? International workers get stuff done, because they aren’t constantly comparing themselves with other people. Maybe if Thai people stopped constantly thinking about who they can bully in their office and who they have to appease, then they could actually get some work done rather than cause constant conflict (at least there’s constant conflict in Fon’s office, or at least in her mind) and Thailand could make more money. My boss isn’t deluded enough to think he can personally alter centuries of Thai nationalism and racist character traits. His patience for it is amazing. My boss doesnt make much money either, I’ve seen his car and house, but that doesn’t matter because I respect people based on who they are as people, not simple on what they own.
The very fact that you set up a website like this exposes you as having little or no understanding of either ‘respect’ or ‘Greng jai’. You simply hate all the people you lump together as ‘farangs’… It’s great that most Thai people are nothing like you.
July 10th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
i totally agree with eric and betsy
i hate working with thai ppl in a “thai” way
i used to work in usa before and i felt so much better more comfortable being able to speak up and say sth to my boss..i wish someone could hire me to work overseas!
July 30th, 2010 at 11:32 pm
I would set up an anonymous suggestion-box if Thai workers have a hard time with breaking the hierarchy of the workplace. This way suggestions will get to the person needing them, without being singled out from the rest of the office. No promotion and no firing. That, or he needs to hire a Thai human resource person who can act as a liaison between him and the workers. I would think Thai workers would have a better time talking with someone from their own culture who understands them. The Thai human resource person could also pick up on chatter by the water cooler and give suggestions to the boss about issues that are talked about, but never reach him.
Have you considered forwarding this blogpost to your boss.
I have a story from my cousin who works in the shipbuilding industry, he says that companies all around the world would pay 50% more for the product in Norway than saving the same amount by having a Korean company do the same job. Why? It is pretty simple, the Korean company has a lot more errors in their shipments a.k.a useless products. His superiors came to the conclusion that it was because workers there are too afraid to lose face by saying to the floor manager that they have done a mistake and that it needs rectifying or needs to be tossed away. So the leaders of the company are unaware of why they get so many complaints from these companies.
Bear in mind that most Korean companies are probable experts at what they are doing, but this particular company needed so much guidance that the Norwegian mother company sent Norwegian project leaders to enforce work-culture change, educating the need to report issues in the workplace to the proper people. I don’t know if it got better though, I need to ask my cousin.